"415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)" (415s30)
02/18/2018 at 12:54 • Filed to: F1, racing, circuit
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"415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)" (415s30)
02/18/2018 at 12:54 • Filed to: F1, racing, circuit | 1
| 11 |
Tilke might be embarrassed if this idea works out well, or maybe he doesn’t really care, he got paid. Sometimes ideas just don’t work when they test them in a real race, but he is a driver and maybe he has been working this out in his head going around the circuits.
Article:
For years, Formula One has been struggling to enforce track limits and find various ways to enable more overtaking on track. But while the FIA has been looking at detection systems and other artificial bits, a different track layout may well provide a solution.
The problems with track limits are an ever increasing problem since more and more circuits have replaced their gravel run-offs with tarmac. Similarly, astroturf is also disappearing at several circuits due to a push from MotoGP, as these two run-off surfaces are considered less safe for motorbike racing.
An interesting proposal has now come from Lucas Di Grassi, an all-round racer who is the reigning Formula E champion and boasts a wealth of experience in endurance racing, stock car racing and single seaters.
The Brazilian revealed a proposal on twitter that could create an interesting new challenge for drivers, as it would allow more different, and possibly equally effective racing lines compared to what is possible on traditional, constant width tracks.
In the image, the numbers are the radius in meters. Fig 1 we have, for a given 2g of lateral acceleration, 83km/h min speed (blue), 75km/h (green) and 64km/h (red) | but blue has the worse braking capacity - and so on.
Focusing here on a typical hairpin, it seems like a viable solution to increase the width of the track in parts of the corner, or the entire corner altogether, to allow racing drivers more options on how they tackle a particular corner. In the end, “these actually will make the optimal line depend in a lot of factors.”
Applying the same principle to an entire circuit, a layout could look as follows:
But that’s not the end of the story, as the racer also proposes to combine this with a curvature in the racetrack surface as well:
On his own sketch, Di Grassi notes: “You could calculate angle ‘A’ and ‘B’ in such way that any of the 3 lines chosen by a driver - blue black or red - could produce similar lap times. By doing so, drivers don’t need to follow the cars in front therefore not lose downforce”.
Di Grassi’s proposal is still a theoretical exercise, and one that has not been simulated. It would be extremely interesting to be able to measure its effects, while also taking into account other things like track drainage and security in case of accidents.
However, from these few examples, it is clear that there is some potential in extending the track design philosophies to improve overtaking. Adding camber could even enable circuit designers to create corners where the ideal line is away from the edges of the track, naturally removing the need to check if drivers stay within the limits of the track.
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gin-san - shitpost specialist
> 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
02/18/2018 at 13:17 |
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It’s a neat concept, hopefully something that is considered in future designs, although my fear is that F1 will increasingly go for street races for commercial reasons, and also the fact that you don’t have to build an F1-grade circuit.
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415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
> gin-san - shitpost specialist
02/18/2018 at 13:20 |
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I like a couple street races if they are nice to look at but I can’t get into FE because they sound awful but also because they are always just driving around in between these temporary barriers on a flat street. You can’t beat a good circuit, they switch to what FE does and I probably can’t watch it.
BeaterGT
> 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
02/18/2018 at 13:29 |
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I’ve gotten the sense Tilke now builds track with Mickey Mouse sections for more car/sponsor/fan exposure, but maybe that is/was his directive? Not sure. I think one of the biggest hurdles would be getting tracks to apply this methodology and have it work for different series of racing. Also, who would pay for these types of changes, or would they only apply to newly designed tracks? Great topic for brainstorming, good on Di Grassi for bringing it to light.
One of the biggest problems F1-grade circuits are facing today is the constant need to resurface tracks so they are safe for both MotoGP and F1. The braking force exerted by F1 cars actually shapes and causes undulations in the track surface. When I was out at COTA for the F1 race, I was surprised to hear so many conversations about the foundation underneath the track. Apparently it is a big issue for them (especially after the torrential conditions in 2015) and you can hear it from the drivers too when they complain about bumps in the track.
As a method to enforce track limits, I don’t see how the curvature in the turn would work. If someone comes in too hot to a turn, wouldn’t it act as a ramp potentially sending driver/rider airborne?
I apologize, I just kept writing as things popped into my head.
aquila121
> 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
02/18/2018 at 13:34 |
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Interesting thought. As a spectator, I welcome configurations/track conditions that invite more than one valid interpretation of lines, and it’s exciting when a driver has a chance to make a pass or significantly make ground by deviating from where others place themselves. I’d consider it, but my only concern is that if a track is designed this way so that many corners have a few valid approaches, then when you have a few riders or drivers very close together (each trying to make/hold a position), they have less ability to predict where those around them are going to try to be. One may aim to dive under in a brake zone, while their opponent would be looking to set up with a later turn-in or something—those two would need to be on the brakes at different times to complete the green or the red lines in the example pictured, I’m sure. If they’re nose-to-tail on the way in, that sounds crunchy and bad.
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gin-san - shitpost specialist
> 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
02/18/2018 at 13:34 |
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I don’t want only street races, either. The FE sound is one thing, but they are visibly slow on TV. The racing is close, but I’m curious to see what the new generation of cars will do for performance since there will be more power capacity and output (I think).
If anything, we need some good circuits back. I really want F1 to return to Istanbul Park.
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BeaterGT
> aquila121
02/18/2018 at 13:39 |
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Your first point is what makes Max Verstappen such a spectacle as he makes moves in places that makes other drivers look feeble.
chaozbandit
> gin-san - shitpost specialist
02/18/2018 at 13:40 |
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I know they’ve done demos before but they should really give the Indy street courses a proper go. Imagine the damage to the underbody on a track like Toronto.
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415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
> BeaterGT
02/18/2018 at 13:53 |
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Well all the questions are kind of the point, they need to do simulations, try it in video games first, something realistic. If there is chaos with that then it might not be good in real life. We’ve seen idea before and they just don’t work well in the real world. It’s a science, you have physical limitations and the human factor, it’s pretty hard to predict what the combination of changes will have.
Maxima Speed
> 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
02/18/2018 at 13:53 |
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What are track limits?
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415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
> Maxima Speed
02/18/2018 at 13:53 |
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Vettel doesn’t know either
Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief
> 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
02/18/2018 at 16:30 |
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Hard pass.
I think moats filled with alligators would work too and infinitely more satisfying for the average viewer. Stay on track or be eaten.
Give the people what they want!